[Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

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Krishty
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von Krishty »

An internal beta of Ace Combat X – Skies of Deception surfaced on Hidden Palace.

Some gameplay by SlyCooperFan1: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/557463802

Ostrich and Rythus have some snapshots of the built-in model viewer: https://twitter.com/RythusOmega/status/ ... 2886857728, https://twitter.com/SuperOstrich/status ... 5884877825
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Krishty
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von Krishty »

Argonbolt’s latest video on Ace Combat 3 explains where its vision of the future comes from – what inspired the architecture, the sound, the menus. Well-researched and on point! Bonus points for digging out the aesthetic clips of Osaka 1970.

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Krishty
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von Krishty »

Oh look! Someone used the extracted AC3 models to print/build a diorama :)

https://www.reddit.com/r/acecombat/comm ... t_diorama/
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Krishty
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von Krishty »

There’s been two interesting updates in the past month; sorry for the delay.

First, DragonSpike finished the background music fix for Electrosphere, giving two missions the music the developers originally intended. [Links deleted; see clarification two posts below!]

He still pursues his work on AC3 International Edition and it’ll be out when it’s done :)

Second, we got our hands on Ace Combat 3’s original script, signed by the voice actors. (To be accurate, it’s three books!) Avarik has started scanning them for the Internet Archive and other sites: Bild
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Tiles
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von Tiles »

Cool :)
Free Gamegraphics, Freeware Games https://www.reinerstilesets.de
Die deutsche 3D Community: https://www.3d-ring.de
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von Krishty »

Quick clarification on the Background Music Fix I mentioned above (I hope I got this right):

Someone stole it from SolidSnake11 (from the AC3 ITA team), claimed it was their own, and approached DSXIII to include it in his project.

When DSXIII was noticed, he took it down immediately and kindly asked me to clarify it here as well, so I deleted the links from the post above.

These things happen from time to time, but they don’t have to. Please be honest about what you do and what you find out. Don’t waste our time, don’t damage the reputation of others, don’t turn in someone else’s work as your own!
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von Krishty »

Wow, 101.000 Views …

So, I found an old Namco press kit on the Internet Archive, and it turned out to contain some awesome artwork and screenshots. So many thanks to DragonSpikeXIII for his help!

If you’re a programmer and you’d like to understand CD-ROM forensics stuff / file systems / etc, visit: http://krishty.com/articles/namcos-1999-press-kit-1/

If you’re just an Ace Combat fan and want to see characters / movie stills / beta snapshots in never-before-seen quality, visit: http://krishty.com/articles/namcos-1999 ... -combat-3/

(It’s an external article because of the sheer amount of images.)

That was a fun weekend; looking forward to find more in the future!

Bild
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Infrid
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von Infrid »

Orientalcomputer_1 found the disc on archive.org in the past and we didn't need to deal with any of those disc errors, you can simply mount the image on linux and copy-paste the content. Anyway, I checked the hashes and they match with what you extracted, good job.

I noticed you removed an empty dir Move&Rename and renamed the files in Ridge Racer Type 4/PAL version/openingCG/*.
Quick clarification on the Background Music Fix I mentioned above (I hope I got this right):

Someone stole it from SolidSnake11 (from the AC3 ITA team), claimed it was their own, and approached DSXIII to include it in his project.
There was a leak from our testers by accident, we don't hide our work or keep secrets, we don't consider ourselves as an elite. We'll release everything when the patches are completed, meanwhile [shameless auto-promotion] you can download the Italian patch from our new website. We had to rename our team and for this occasion, I moved a few repositories as well. Krishty you might want to update the links on your website (and check your ssl certificate too).
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Krishty
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von Krishty »

Infrid hat geschrieben: 24.01.2022, 12:29Orientalcomputer_1 found the disc on archive.org in the past and we didn't need to deal with any of those disc errors, you can simply mount the image on linux and copy-paste the content.
Wow, great! I searched for previous work, but hadn’t found anything. Will update my article!

We noticed that the disc errors do depend on the software used – e.g. the image won’t mount at all with WinCDEmu, and only erraneous with PowerISO. The quality of Linux mount programs seems better.
I noticed you removed an empty dir Move&Rename and renamed the files in Ridge Racer Type 4/PAL version/openingCG/*.
I’m not aware of any renamed files – what names did you use? I just checked OPG2234 (no extension) and this is the exact way it’s spelled in the disc data. But yeah, the empty directory had a weird name prefix that caused errors.

Thanks for the new site info (lookin great!) and the clarification. One question though: Where has your Wiki gone?
and check your ssl certificate too
No SSL; my hoster demands an ungodly amount of money for that :(
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von Infrid »

to avoid any confusion here the file list and the hashes, nothing to worry about since you correctly extracted the files. To be fair we didn't publish anything online: we found the disc, checked the files got excited and carry on :D

I removed the wiki because was more a liability to maintain than an actual source of information, those articles are way too outdated. We wrote a bunch of tools from scratch to translate the game, we don't edit the images anymore from the Japanese files, we build them from scratch using a markup file. In theory, you could translate the game in German and feed the text to the build process to create the ISO, would still require some manual work to wrap it up but the dialogues and main texts would work right away. Since we changed the way we work, there is no reason for me to keep that info online, those methods are too time-consuming and error-prone.

Code: Alles auswählen

├── Ace Combat 3
│   └── JPN version
│       ├── AirCraft
│       │   ├── U505_0.TGA
│       │   └── U505_1.TGA
│       ├── characters
│       │   ├── dision
│       │   │   └── DISION00.PSD
│       │   ├── erich
│       │   │   ├── ERICH01.PSD
│       │   │   └── ERICH02.PSD
│       │   ├── fiona
│       │   │   ├── FIONA01.PSD
│       │   │   └── FIONA02.PSD
│       │   └── rena
│       │       ├── RENA01.PSD
│       │       └── RENA02.PSD
│       ├── other logos
│       │   ├── GENERALRESOURCE.PSD
│       │   └── UPEO.PSD
│       ├── screenshots
│       │   ├── 50%
│       │   │   ├── AC01.BMP
│       │   │   ├── AC09.BMP
│       │   │   ├── AC12.BMP
│       │   │   ├── AC13.BMP
│       │   │   ├── AC14.BMP
│       │   │   └── AC23.BMP
│       │   ├── 70%
│       │   │   ├── 11.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 13.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 15.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 31.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 32.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 33.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 47.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 51.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 52.BMP
│       │   │   └── 53.BMP
│       │   ├── 80%
│       │   │   ├── 10.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 22.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 24.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 25.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 27.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 36.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 37.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 39.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 40.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 41.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 42.BMP
│       │   │   ├── 43.BMP
│       │   │   └── 44.BMP
│       │   └── 85%
│       │       ├── 03.BMP
│       │       ├── 04.BMP
│       │       ├── 09.BMP
│       │       ├── 10.BMP
│       │       ├── 11.BMP
│       │       ├── 14.BMP
│       │       ├── 15.BMP
│       │       ├── 19.BMP
│       │       ├── 20.BMP
│       │       ├── 24.BMP
│       │       ├── 25.BMP
│       │       ├── 26.BMP
│       │       ├── 27.BMP
│       │       ├── 28.BMP
│       │       ├── 29.BMP
│       │       ├── 30.BMP
│       │       ├── 31.BMP
│       │       └── 34.BMP
│       ├── TGS ImageMovies
│       │   ├── IM01.TGA
│       │   ├── IM02.TGA
│       │   ├── IM03.TGA
│       │   ├── IM04.TGA
│       │   ├── IM05.TGA
│       │   ├── IM06.TGA
│       │   ├── IM07.TGA
│       │   ├── IM08.TGA
│       │   ├── IM09.TGA
│       │   ├── IM10.TGA
│       │   ├── IM11.TGA
│       │   ├── IM12.TGA
│       │   ├── IM13.TGA
│       │   ├── IM14.TGA
│       │   ├── IM15.TGA
│       │   ├── IM16.TGA
│       │   ├── IM17.TGA
│       │   ├── IM18.TGA
│       │   ├── IM19.TGA
│       │   ├── IM20.TGA
│       │   └── IM21.TGA
│       └── title logo
│           ├── AC3_imgcolor.ai
│           └── AC3_logo.ai
├── AppleShare PDS
├── Desktop DB
├── Desktop DF
├── Desktop Folder
├── DesktopPrinters DB
├── Dragon Valor
│   └── JPN version
│       ├── 10%screenshots
│       │   ├── dora01
│       │   ├── dora0204.PSD
│       │   ├── dora0301.PSD
│       │   ├── dora0303.PSD
│       │   ├── dora0403.PSD
│       │   ├── dora0404.PSD
│       │   ├── dora0405.PSD
│       │   ├── dora0505.PSD
│       │   └── dora0602.PSD
│       ├── character
│       │   ├── MOVIE1_4.psd
│       │   └── MOVIE3+1.PSD
│       ├── image
│       │   └── IMAGE1_1012++.PSD
│       └── title logo
│           └── TITLE LOGO.PSD
├── Kournikovas Tennis
│   └── PAL version
│       ├── Anna photos
│       │   ├── ad11.psd
│       │   ├── ad1.psd
│       │   ├── ad5.psd
│       │   └── ad9.psd
│       ├── characters
│       ├── JPN screenshots
│       │   ├── untitled-1
│       │   ├── untitled-2
│       │   └── untitled-3
│       └── logo&image.PSD
├── \003\002\001Move&Rename
├── Ridge Racer Type 4
│   └── PAL version
│       ├── 90% screenshots
│       │   ├── PAL10.psd
│       │   ├── PAL 11.psd
│       │   ├── PAL 12.psd
│       │   ├── PAL 13.psd
│       │   ├── PAL14.psd
│       │   ├── PAL 1.psd
│       │   ├── PAL 2.psd
│       │   ├── PAL 3.psd
│       │   ├── PAL 4.psd
│       │   ├── PAL 5.psd
│       │   ├── PAL 6.psd
│       │   ├── PAL 7.psd
│       │   ├── PAL 8.psd
│       │   └── PAL 9.psd
│       ├── openingCG
│       │   ├── OPG0280.
│       │   ├── OPG0681.
│       │   ├── OPG0776.
│       │   ├── OPG0876.
│       │   ├── OPG0991.
│       │   ├── OPG1111.
│       │   ├── OPG1359.
│       │   ├── OPG1690.
│       │   ├── OPG1849.
│       │   ├── OPG2234.
│       │   ├── OPG2298.
│       │   ├── OPG2500.
│       │   ├── OPG2708.
│       │   ├── OPG2754.
│       │   └── OPG3116.
│       └── title logo
├── Temporary Items
└── Trash
md5 hash

Code: Alles auswählen

1929c058a4902711b4dbec470a9af251  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/AirCraft/U505_0.TGA
11e8ef4e8b83e80fec0ad9f12ccf1244  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/AirCraft/U505_1.TGA
4b77d3a11f7d39305f3afa39b3ece945  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/characters/dision/DISION00.PSD
06b0fba1572a5aa85a772057e884ebc2  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/characters/erich/ERICH01.PSD
33dbd14f56db6789010f2eaf341cc278  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/characters/erich/ERICH02.PSD
9bbe51c48bf201d2f64ab08a8392edd7  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/characters/fiona/FIONA01.PSD
89816a467f66ed9849d10887492d38f2  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/characters/fiona/FIONA02.PSD
bad898838aa88aa33186dff476b77869  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/characters/rena/RENA01.PSD
84eafee503d3b4d5396f5675cf70cac1  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/characters/rena/RENA02.PSD
c1f1cb0b4a9dd732a82af49b9095506b  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/other logos/GENERALRESOURCE.PSD
90faa59da55639cbd903f66a63dbafef  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/other logos/UPEO.PSD
c92543d551247037413c61e882bc3a2e  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/50%/AC01.BMP
c9d3e8e6bf20abd3fface01a29682811  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/50%/AC09.BMP
dc1733e6e02096bd6babc788f7a9cf1d  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/50%/AC12.BMP
959cd04b61844b3daaf1fd13ac642bb5  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/50%/AC13.BMP
48271169d992ca9400a2f0d961c3a8fa  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/50%/AC14.BMP
679f5c82848ef822b4b4eea539279e48  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/50%/AC23.BMP
4c68ba3378fa9ac91af14482c690ba58  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/70%/11.BMP
991f6079ebd0fbe484752b6d31d729ef  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/70%/13.BMP
65d983b6bc13ff0d2ff6c2625820a8ac  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/70%/15.BMP
0ee7db1ab5a577eed11c4f243df558a8  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/70%/31.BMP
19e6481e07474eb93035ef51a4a02ff3  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/70%/32.BMP
06f2b3a6ca91c1007fe813df3061faa6  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/70%/33.BMP
caca025c29ccd8acace1b208239fa8dc  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/70%/47.BMP
145f3f83606b38fcd2875ef1a9e4b061  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/70%/51.BMP
1becdac76c3a7952402b5ef26fc869b5  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/70%/52.BMP
ab3c6a19e78cb95b800bd4de36978cad  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/70%/53.BMP
111fe05049335a432220e20693ab50b7  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/80%/10.BMP
99e934e1f7d630dac4b7bef610ee5ffa  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/80%/22.BMP
881027d75df4695ea5ed997659c42a15  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/80%/24.BMP
022f5961878c04fec5a58aae70b59f64  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/80%/25.BMP
b13c82fbdc22d1dfb233a10d05a39e70  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/80%/27.BMP
577c55cd87d028f6dc5d9d6a85e7725e  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/80%/36.BMP
b71278c39399fe9a4f4f3003283a9b0f  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/80%/37.BMP
242408c7b57f838ad959c50ef4b7bdb2  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/80%/39.BMP
7c6a1d2c2d25a3a10fee69a86b56e58c  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/80%/40.BMP
1d8f7530421f352af042eea3d655694b  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/80%/41.BMP
07f216d33cb38a9ff2eac233ec217a60  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/80%/42.BMP
4a43238c8ae7f97cbb2af0277eb5e3a2  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/80%/43.BMP
4c755526c3dc1be43d9f56d0636a51ca  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/80%/44.BMP
f28bfa1bd16fa711792a8995142f7b84  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/03.BMP
f0c4cac07644e1f71f7fee82dcbcbf8c  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/04.BMP
27a6c5471bd86719e404068c7ea26041  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/09.BMP
6cac1facb78b86c4006a2824c32adaed  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/10.BMP
ac91491af5151e1264036758ac82d3fc  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/11.BMP
1f929c6b7a74f042f8dbc35b4ca569aa  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/14.BMP
2a7fe9d5d5b66e9fa3d03b86caf20255  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/15.BMP
b121c43442b9c2b9abd2c1d268fb3e43  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/19.BMP
0c6f8a66cb309c095254cd63d6e1660b  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/20.BMP
2653d762f586b3aef6205a63ae023f10  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/24.BMP
a12ba03478ac381fd27e207bd4cafa9e  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/25.BMP
76496ad8f382330eb8dfc7c0bca2ddb5  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/26.BMP
8b271284e0f4f964ea05f53b36512c63  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/27.BMP
d709f9b3a235b9d33304c5ab58a21736  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/28.BMP
b2e7169727c4ed4b766523669102884d  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/29.BMP
e9a7d1f9d698925292e387e4249955d2  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/30.BMP
2864c3b5590defe33863bba7e38cc7f8  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/31.BMP
a42fb1182b8da94bb90cfd42a97783d8  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/screenshots/85%/34.BMP
88520c8b454c2e5d6d619c1a9fd0565d  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/TGS ImageMovies/IM01.TGA
89c8097e430876220ba4fdcb5c2c87c6  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/TGS ImageMovies/IM02.TGA
0351f7c49c2aba69e7c5f0c8b600a8e4  ./Ace Combat 3/JPN version/TGS ImageMovies/IM03.TGA
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b8b0769591b6680ec4ca0c3d200add1b  ./Kournikovas Tennis/PAL version/logo&image.PSD
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543f33c30085546288855d3cce25878c  ./Ridge Racer Type 4/PAL version/90% screenshots/PAL 11.psd
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af7c73844ee68e119f98e9d3904e1664  ./Ridge Racer Type 4/PAL version/title logo
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Krishty
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von Krishty »

Infrid hat geschrieben: 24.01.2022, 13:20I removed the wiki because was more a liability to maintain than an actual source of information, those articles are way too outdated. We wrote a bunch of tools from scratch to translate the game, we don't edit the images anymore from the Japanese files, we build them from scratch using a markup file. In theory, you could translate the game in German and feed the text to the build process to create the ISO, would still require some manual work to wrap it up but the dialogues and main texts would work right away. Since we changed the way we work, there is no reason for me to keep that info online, those methods are too time-consuming and error-prone.
Makes sense. Very cool pipeline!

The filename problem is the trailing dots. Windows doesn’t allow trailing dots. Now I’m emberassed :D

Edit: I added comments to my articles about the disc image mounting fine on Linux and about the Load Word Team having been there earlier.
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hensom
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von hensom »

Again very cool stuff! Do you have some polygon numbers? It appears to me that the beta versions have higher polygoncount than the final ones.

Best Regards
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Krishty
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

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Hi hensom! Polygon counts are hard to compare. Most terrain tiles have 10–50 polygons, and there’s not much difference between the final versions and the unreleased ones. The overall count is irrelevant because the beta levels contain some unfinished stuff that drives the polygon count up, but is otherwise irrelevant …
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hensom
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von hensom »

Krishty hat geschrieben: 31.03.2022, 11:52 Hi hensom! Polygon counts are hard to compare. Most terrain tiles have 10–50 polygons, and there’s not much difference between the final versions and the unreleased ones. The overall count is irrelevant because the beta levels contain some unfinished stuff that drives the polygon count up, but is otherwise irrelevant …
Hi Krishty, Thank you for the info.
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Krishty
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

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For Ace Combat 5 Modders

I forked the old AC4Analysis tool and added support for AC5’s data compression. It can now be used to access all files in AC5 (but 3D models cannot be displayed yet).
https://github.com/krishty/acanalysis/r ... /tag/1.8.0

Funnily, AC5 on the PS2 uses the same ULZ compression as AC3 on the PSX. I ported the ULZ code of my unpack_AC3 program from C++ to C# and it worked just fine!

2022-05-02 ulz-compressed ac5 data.png
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Krishty
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

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I’ve been loading Ace Combat 3’s levels into my own flight simulator.

Much to be written about why and how, but later – need to get up early tomorrow … in the meantime, enjoy a few snapshots.

2022-07-05 Megafloat at night.png
The daytime levels look good as well, but I love the nighttime look so much!

2022-07-01 AC3 moving map.png
Unfortunately, my plane is invisible due to rendering issues. But we have working instruments, including an actual overview map of the level …

2022-06-30 Expo City 3.png
Flying through the cities, dodging skyscrapers left and right, is a blast!


I can land on the carrier in Paper Tiger and I can actually speedrun Tunnel Vision in my realistic F-22 :)
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starcow
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von starcow »

Did you write an entire engine yourself?
Could this also be used to mimic Ace Combat gameplay?

Great work! Very impressive!
Freelancer 3D- und 2D-Grafik
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Krishty
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

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Thanks!
starcow hat geschrieben: 06.07.2022, 23:10Did you write an entire engine yourself?
Yes :) It’s this one. In fact, I did all this because I needed new test cases for my engine, specifically for the modding API I’m currently implementing.
Could this also be used to mimic Ace Combat gameplay?
To some degree. Graphics? No problem, as you see. Plane handling, HUD, missile and cannon handling? Can be emulated easily; the only thing stopping me from it right now is that the plane data is buried pretty deep in the data files or EXE, where I haven’t found it yet …

… actual mission logic and AI? Don’t know. Unfortunately, I haven’t come so far yet.
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Krishty
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

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Well my terrain is nice, but I desparately need the spawn positions for enemies and targets. These can be found for each mission in the 7th ULZ, 0th file.

But the format is incredibly complex and weird. I constantly burst into tears trying to understand it.
Nonetheless I was able to follow the traces of the carrier deck in Paper Tiger due to its special way of modeling, and found a few coordinates. I cannot locate arbitrary coordinates yet, but I have these ones.

Here’s the bottom line:
  • AC3’s coordinate space has its origin at the center of the map, i.e. 65,536 m from its bottom-left corner. The coordinates are signed.
  • AC3 internally uses the North East Down axis convention.
  • Like I said earlier, the terrain is subdivided into 256×256 tiles of 512 m sidelength each, with a total sidelength of 131,072 m.
  • AC3 does not internally use meters, but quarter meters. Most terrain stuff is expressed is quarter meters relative to the tile center (e.g all terrain tile vertices).
  • Coordinates of planes, targets, etc. are internally stored in 4096th of quarter meters, i.e. 16,384th of meters. Level coordinates thus cover a [-2^30-1…2^30] range of integers.
  • Since an additional bit is needed to encode arbitrary vectors throughout the terrain, it is impossible to load larger terrains into AC3 even with some basic EXE hacks.
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Kiri678
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von Kiri678 »

Thank You. This is amazing. I really do appreciate what you are doing here.

I always wanted to see AC3 models upclose from way back when i didn't even know what the game was about, i even tried porting some to SA after encountering your extracts, tho thats whole different story (of limitations). So seeing AC3 assets in TAW is quite dope.
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von Krishty »

Thank you so much for your kind words! I’ll post more details soon, and I’m trying to record some fine video footage. In the meantime, if you’re into technical details, feel free to read my developer diary …
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Kiri678
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von Kiri678 »

Thank you so much for your kind words! I’ll post more details soon, and I’m trying to record some fine video footage. In the meantime, if you’re into technical details, feel free to read my developer diary …
Thanks for the link, it's always interesting to me finding out how something was done.
Technical details are nice. I never knew that AC3 has measures in quarter meters.
I did try simple calculation for Tunnel Vision based on some video recordings to get about cca. 110km lenght, but i never considered max possible widh and lenght of map or other related things (it was interesting to see overall in tunnel dimensions, since its the only map i managed to import somehow into blender).

It's simply amazing stuff, i never played TAW but it does remind me of F-16 and Mig-29 games from back in the day made by Novalogic.
Wish i could be of help in this, but im noob at code related stuff.
Anyways, awaiting that video footage.
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

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Kiri678 hat geschrieben: 28.07.2022, 21:08Technical details are nice. I never knew that AC3 has measures in quarter meters.
I did try simple calculation for Tunnel Vision based on some video recordings to get about cca. 110km lenght, but i never considered max possible widh and lenght of map or other related things (it was interesting to see overall in tunnel dimensions, since its the only map i managed to import somehow into blender).
Wow, so we both had the same idea :)

Here’s specifically how I found out about the sizes of maps:

The tiles in my extracted maps have a coordinate range of -1024 to +1024. I.e. 2048 units, with us not knowing how long a unit is.

I watched a speedrun of the Tunnel Vision level:

The part I found most valuable started when the bottom-left corner showed 32.5 seconds – the plane leaves the tight tunnel and flies at almost constant top speed, until it clears that green tunnel at 59.5 seconds.

If we look at this segment in my extracted data and hide every other tile so we can easily count them, we see that there are 60 terrain tiles between those two spots:
Tunnel Vision tiles count.png

The player needed to evade those doors, so let’s assume 26 seconds instead of 27. So it took 26 seconds to fly over 60 tiles at ~4260 km/h.

4260 km/h × 26 s = 30,766 m; divide by 60 tiles = 512.77 m – which is REALLY close to 512, the magic programming number of 2^9.

So we can safely assume the tiles have a sidelength of 512 m @ 2048 in-game units, thus the AC3’s units cover quarter meters.

It will be interesting to find out whether the other AC titles use the same coordinates!
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RythusOmega
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von RythusOmega »

I always wanted to see AC3 models upclose from way back when i didn't even know what the game was about, i even tried porting some to SA after encountering your extracts
Not exactly PS1 models in my case, but indeed, learning Zmodeler 2 with low-poly model ports are an interesing experiment, as i managed to learn half perfectly how to convert the structure of the original models at the time
Bild

But still on the map topics, would like to give a word after reading the recent new posts from the thread, and seeing i helped Rauuru mostly with Blender doubts before

About imports, isn't one of the best... for aircraft and props in general, 2.79 is the best choice, but 2.49b was the one that i found better luck when importing the maps, as when opening the .vrml, the program would crash from 2.79 and onwards. the average time of import, at best, i would say it takes 2 to 3 hours as when you ask to import, Blender will freeze, until it shows the map imported, however the input lag still applies due you need to join all meshes and then export into .obj for using on the recent versions
Bild

Not sure if is something native from the maps or not, but on the upper left at the near end most of the time, they i'll have a junk mesh containing a lot of props which gathers a lot into the poly count, removing that one, along merging the mip titles with "merge by distance", having even few poly count helps at handling the model better
(currently i'm without my graphics boards, and those tests were made before the artifacts turned worse, but the input lag problem was more from 2.49b as the recent Blender versions had a better perfomace for handling bloated models)
Bild

Other issues are visible like backface culling, not sure if applied to the material settings, or it would occur when exporting, as some Unity models i tested i discovered they got culling issues because of the alpha blend modes, along assigning the textures in general, seeing for each map, they got "100" textures appoximately
Bild

So, despite possible to import at Blender to a extent, not sure if other software turns the workflow easier, even for AC7 where the only existing map import was a simple Backrooms import by Timothy, and Lean Viewer along with the AC3 models turned popular but weren't backported still, the two brief reasons i would say:
A.)the current version of the VRML script is broken, with the only working ones begin on 2.79 and 2.49b, even worse, 3.2 recently removed the support to Vertex Colors, as not only the AC3 models make use of this data, as UE4 games, including AC7, can make use of Vertex Colors too, so it was a reason that i recently downgraded from 2.92 when using 3.1 during the last months
B.)if the current method would be used, people would probably gave up during the 2.49b step, not counting map duplicates, porting all the AC3 maps probably would be a tiresome work, both on the model department, to converting them to Unreal Engine assets, as compared to cooking a simple model, maps can be a whole other history, as .umap despite getting advantages, are very bulky assets in general
But yeah, personally as having few casual knowledge of simulators, mostly FS and YSF, the latter having a Geofront map mod that i played a lot, the interest at backporting the AC3 Geofront model to AC7 is an interessing experiment challenge, as some stuff like M20's Selatapura could replicate most of the original mechanics correctly

(BTW yes, still active for people that may remember my existence, yes, SNS went deleted, however phpBB accounts, like at ZFX and Zenhax/Xentax, are more complicated to delete due requires admin support, so didn't bothered at going through seeing i could use those accounts still, but currently busy focusing more on my personal life, that required more attention)
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Krishty
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

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Hi Rythus! Nice seeing you!
RythusOmega hat geschrieben: 29.07.2022, 11:19seeing i helped Rauuru mostly with Blender doubts before
Does that mean we can hope for new artwork 🤩
the average time of import, at best, i would say it takes 2 to 3 hours as when you ask to import, Blender will freeze, until it shows the map imported
Wow. It’s a few seconds with Lean Viewer. I know my code is fast, but … damn!
Not sure if is something native from the maps or not, but on the upper left at the near end most of the time, they i'll have a junk mesh containing a lot of props which gathers a lot into the poly count
Yeah, that’s a Blender bug. The tiles are re-used throughout the level. VRML supports instancing, so you describe a tile once and you instantiate it in different places of the level. This first description of the tile happens in a switch construct, which is the officially recommended way of describing meshes without instantiating it. Blender, not giving anything about the specification, just instantiates it anyway. So you have a copy of each and every tile at the coordinate origin. Just delete them.
Other issues are visible like backface culling
I see, but I verified my backface culling with the specification, maaany other models, and two applications. Pretty sure Blender has screwed up again.
even worse, 3.2 recently removed the support to Vertex Colors
Wow, that is really bad! So many games rely on vertex colors, and for good reasons …
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RythusOmega
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von RythusOmega »

Wow. It’s a few seconds with Lean Viewer. I know my code is fast, but … damn!
Yeah, is indeed strange of why it takes so longer, along begin very CPU intensive even by having a good GPU, the mips begin separated are the only reason i can see of this side effect to occur in 2.49b
I see, but I verified my backface culling with the specification, maaany other models, and two applications. Pretty sure Blender has screwed up again.
i think is possible to fix, due the aircraft models doesn't suffer from that, the only issue i had with them before was when i used meshconv, which their UV coordinates needed manual adjust, alpha blend is probably the main reason, but i didn't tested yet, and not sure if the .blend project i saved, would handle well currently in a Intel Graphics...
Wow, that is really bad! So many games rely on vertex colors, and for good reasons …
Like, isn't "totally" removed, but they went reclassed as "Color Attributes", i didn't tested out to see how different is, but wouldn't be suprised the name change implies the architeture of how is handled got drastic changes and could influenciate on issues during imports, one of the cons from 3.0 to 3.2 and why i came back to 2.92 also, is that the integrated Python got updated, but with the side effect that broke most of the plugins that were compatible from 2.7 to 2.9, due one of the scripts i most use only works on 2.92 and backwards, and the author said it would be hard to update by default as the one i use was based on an early version compared to the last current ones, so i opted for doing the downgrade, i may loss some good new features in the process, but 2.92 is still the best intermediate from the 3.0's layout and functions, so i'm not such behind by that choice
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Kiri678
Beiträge: 10
Registriert: 13.07.2022, 18:35

Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von Kiri678 »

I watched a speedrun of the Tunnel Vision level:
I used exact same video, tho i wasn't that precise, here are some screens of aproximate tunnel measures:
blender_QXaQ5zMoat.png
blender_xryA4x3JgQ.png
This is with 112km total map lenght, 19km off of what it should be, but even still it gives some sense of scale and how massive the tunnel really is.
I should rescale the tunnel and try again sometime to get more accurate measures with magical 512. :)


Not exactly PS1 models in my case, but indeed, learning Zmodeler 2 with low-poly model ports are an interesing experiment, as i managed to learn half perfectly how to convert the structure of the original models at the time
Nice most people use 3ds for SA, i prefer blender, just can't get used to other ui's. Tho port looks darkish, prob orig vertex color or upside down faces? No wait, it's ambiental shading. Also ride height is way off, but i guess u went for porting experience. Sorry, modding habit of nitpicking, hope u won't take it for evil. :)

Heres my failed/abandoned port (it's looking okay-ish, but underneath are hidden massive problems...):
gallery62.jpg
gallery63.jpg


the current version of the VRML script is broken, with the only working ones begin on 2.79 and 2.49b, even worse, 3.2 recently removed the support to Vertex Colors
Typical blender experience, one thing gets added while 5 others get somehow broken lol.


Thanks for the info on blender versions for import. I'm still using blender 2.9 since i need material utilities. I've read other posts before and i did try 2.49b for vrml import, but after around 10sec it just closes, so i had to give up on that way.

After all kind of import tries and fails i found small program called view3dscene which allowed me to convert vrml to x3d (xml).
It works fine, more or less....


Planes are easy and fast to convert, tho on blender import they are tripled and gradualy scaled, like babuska dolls.
babuska dolls bullshit.png
Scale and materials get broken but since planes are 3-4 parts it's easy to fix.


Maps on the other hand, well i've only managed to import/export Tunel Vision, with other maps program becomes laggy and freezes (maybe i should have waited 2-3 hours).

I used 2.79 blender for import if i recal right (since based on screenshots this was in 11th month last year)
Map doesn't duplicate or triple, everything gets imported (mesh, vertex colors, materials), well except materials are a bit broken-ish, they loose info about which texture they should have, but the link to faces is still there.

So yeah... blender and his peculiar issues ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Krishty
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von Krishty »

Kiri678 hat geschrieben: 29.07.2022, 21:41This is with 112km total map lenght, 19km off of what it should be, but even still it gives some sense of scale and how massive the tunnel really is.
It is so incredibly massive that it’s hard to put in words. I think a 747 could pass even through the tightest parts!
Heres my failed/abandoned port (it's looking okay-ish, but underneath are hidden massive problems...):
Even with just the graphics working, it’s fantastic to see these models in SA’s environment 💖
seziert Ace Combat, Driver, und S.T.A.L.K.E.R.   —   rendert Sterne
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RythusOmega
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Registriert: 17.07.2017, 09:29

Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von RythusOmega »

Nice most people use 3ds for SA, i prefer blender, just can't get used to other ui's. Tho port looks darkish, prob orig vertex color or upside down faces? No wait, it's ambiental shading. Also ride height is way off, but i guess u went for porting experience. Sorry, modding habit of nitpicking, hope u won't take it for evil. :)
nah, don't worry, got that aspect also by modding experience, i learned a bit of 3DS for SA modding when learning character rigging, but my nitpick with Max was that most plugins at the time only was available to it, but thankfully, today's Blender got more support after the previous abstence

this was a work i did in 2013, so i was still getting the hang of it as sort of experiment, did 6 vehicles in total, shaders i remember i did set up to Zmodeler's default one, and size was based of manual input, adjusting to the original vehicle size i would be replacing, another interesing trivia, but not with models, was at the time i also managed to learn(ofc after a lot of failures) to import a vehicle as a unique custom slot added, which i used the F-16 painted with Gyrfalcon's skin that was the one i probably made. from a brief look, the tools probably improved for stuff like that

The R-101 model looks good, elevators out of bounds aside(most of my early modding was like that before), gears probably was taken externaly, not sure if the ACI's R-101 was in your mind during the reference(looks similar, but i can guess is a totally different thing)
Planes are easy and fast to convert, tho on blender import they are tripled and gradualy scaled, like babuska dolls.
About the "babhuskas", those are the "LOD levels" of the player models in terms, unlike the CPU ones which are separated, on one of the Lean Viewer's tab, you got a prompt that you can check which model contains derivates, and it will show them at the same count

Materials was something that occured to me before, it looked like a mess right? due those were an occurence when switching to Cycles, i managed to fix that by tweaking the UV coords on the materials tab, may send some pictures later as i still got the .blend file with the settings

About the 2.49b crash, it was something i was in doubt, due i remember that occuring, at best 2.79 was the one that i used on the maps, but the diference aside of going through the lag at first try, the second was selecting all the meshes then exporting in .obj, which when reimported, everything imported correctly
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Kiri678
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Re: [Projekt] Extracting Ace Combat

Beitrag von Kiri678 »

It is so incredibly massive that it’s hard to put in words. I think a 747 could pass even through the tightest parts!
Tbh, im having a hard time imaging it. It's that typical Neon Genesis, Ghost in the Shell megalopolis vibe im gettin.


Even with just the graphics working, it’s fantastic to see these models in SA’s environment 💖
Thanks man.
The R-101 model looks good, elevators out of bounds aside(most of my early modding was like that before), gears probably was taken externaly, not sure if the ACI's R-101 was in your mind during the reference(looks similar, but i can guess is a totally different thing)

Well,yeah, i mean, the port works... it can fly, looks good more or less, it has custom collisions, but the biggest problem is landing gear and SA limitation of making proper animations for it(ranging from landing gear, ailerons, etc....). There is Al_planes.cs that would solve most of this issues, but no one knows how to adapt models to it. Not to mention making custom handling, after 1.5k kmh you just fly over the whole map in matter of seconds.... So yeah, i just abandoned port, didn't even bother to fix obvious issues and went to remodeling/making wangan type bs cars....

to import a vehicle as a unique custom slot added
Whoah, finding that on your own prob wasn't easy.
As far as my search goes, game supports 3-4 custom vehicles, after that FLA and/or OLA is needed to brake the id limit.


Ok, back to proper topic lol. :)
About the "babhuskas", those are the "LOD levels" of the player models in terms, unlike the CPU ones which are separated, on one of the Lean Viewer's tab, you got a prompt that you can check which model contains derivates, and it will show them at the same count
Bruh, i'm facepalming so hard right now. But thanks, for pointing out my mistake. I saw level plane LOD's so i thought that those are real LOD's and this is just another blender import bug, but it looks like these LOD's are probably used for replays, considering the quality...

Materials was something that occured to me before, it looked like a mess right?
Idk what kind of experience you got, but as i've said, after converting the map into x3d almost everything imported as it should. But only materials lost info about which texture should that material have, basically blender import bug since that info is contained if you open x3d file with notepad++.
So what i got in the end is map with complete mesh, vertex color, materials and material links but textureless.
blender_iASPG9mRjH.png
Basically i've imported x3d in 2.79 and exported as fbx, and then reimported with 2.9. The place where texture should be defined is just a base color, but as ive said material links are still there.
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